Super highway at the Gap

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Super highway at the Gap

Unread postby hugh jeffner » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:52 pm

So we went to the Gap last night for the first time in a very long time, and as we were boppin along noticed that the trail had been graded. I thought to myself, self, why? In all the years I've been coming to the Gap, it's never been graded before. So we kept cruising along and when we got to the spot just before mini Moab, where you used to be able to flex your junk out, all the deep ruts were filled! The hard line to left was still kind of a challenge, but not like it used to be. Then as we were headed up that hill, we saw the equipment sitting there. A huge crane with a jackhammer and a dozer. What sucked even worse was as we kept driving, we notice all the rocks that had been marked for destruction/improvement.

I guess my question is, does anyone know why they are building this super hwy? Cuz it totally sucks!
if i'd of known we were making history, i'd have paid closer attention (some dude in dust to glory)
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Unread postby ROCKBOXAZ » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:35 pm

The last time they did anything like that was for FS access for the Aspen fire but from the sounds of it they are going a little overboard with it now.
a couple projects not enough parts yet
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Unread postby chuggins143 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:35 pm

You have got to be joking. Although that is a "fire access" road so I can see the service guys getting crazy with the blade. Too bad.

Jeff, I thought your junk was broke and up for sale??
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Unread postby hugh jeffner » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:03 pm

it is busted, i was out there with my buddy in his pile
if i'd of known we were making history, i'd have paid closer attention (some dude in dust to glory)
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Unread postby DUMASS » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:54 pm

http://wheelingarizona.com/forums/posti ... 586be02b06

AZ J20 wrote:
Ashman wrote:It sounds like one option in that plan is to make them unmaintained roads.
If reddington got rougher that might be good, keep the boonie partys out of there.

there is no way they can close reddington and the gap..


X2 Image


What a dumBass I must be, I have ADD, I need medication alright :mad2:






by the way, I fucking told you so :thumb:

edit: I forgot, I'm a dimwit too
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Unread postby hugh jeffner » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:47 pm

Jim, I know I've only met you a couple of times, and in person, you seem really nice and we've had some funny talks, but the condescending approach with which you come at this particular forum with is ridiculous.

If you want to educate or preach feel free, but being mean about it and cussing is making me skip past everything you write instead of seeing if there is any useful information in your post. I would be willing be to bet I'm not alone here.

So, while I'm sure you know more about these issues than almost anyone I know, it would great to learn about these issues rather than cussed at.
if i'd of known we were making history, i'd have paid closer attention (some dude in dust to glory)
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Unread postby DUMASS » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:35 pm

Jeff I assure you none of the venom you refer to is directed towards you or the rest of the great people on here who over the years have fought for the privilege we've enjoyed for so long.

Or is it maybe that the couple times we've met wasn't at any of the meetings or scoping sessions or any of the other chances we've both missed to do something about keeping our sport alive and you feel kind of guilty reading my posts like I feel when I write them?

Refresh my memory have you been to any? I know Ryan and Dave among others were at the last one.

I really am not calling you out personally or anything, just how many on this board have ever gone to any meeting ever to help keep the trails they love open?

FUCK THAT!

I am as guilty as everyone I point the finger at (no not that finger) for not voting and calling and standing together against any negative change which impacts our sport, regardless of whether or not I've ever been there or go there every week, fight anyone who wants to take away the access - period.

If I am blunt it's because I, for one, could not hear the polite but desperate pleas for help.


So if the value of truth is based on the comfort provided by the hearing, we're all in for a helluva new year.

If not now, when?
PVT Martin Treptow wrote:America must win this war. Therefore, I will work, I will save, I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the issue of the whole struggle depended on me alone.


U.S. Supreme Court wrote:It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
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Unread postby Ashman » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:05 pm

That does suck. But now well be able to tow our rigs all the way to the stream where we like to play... :flipoff:
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Unread postby Brody » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:30 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfh92hKLO6c

This comercial came on the Tv while I was reading this thread last night :D

Sucks that they are paving the gap. Probably one of arizona most famous trails even if it is a easy one.

We should through together a land use related meet n great. Then maybe the next time there is a closure meeting more then 25 people will show up. I couldn't make the last get together for personal reasons but I think if it was put together more in advance we could get the numbers up (with of the recent changes being made to public land).... Altough there is no reason why we shouldn't have had a hundred people at the FJ meeting in tucson last year, I know they had allot better turn out in pheonix. If we need to hire a shuttle van to gather everyone up to make the important meetings like ones with blm or fs I'm sure something could be figured out. But it is important that people start making the time even if just to have their number counted. Even calling your wheeling buddy to make sure they get their ass to the important meetings.
Last edited by Brody on Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby peccary » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:47 am

[quote="Brody"

....there is no reason why we shouldn't have had a hundred people at the FJ meeting in tucson last year, [/quote]

Having a large group at those types of meetings may do more harm than good since everybody wants to talk and the message is not specific. But a good showing has value also.

The main thing to remember (at least with the BLM) is that what you say has no weight with them. It MUST be in writing before they are allowed to use it as a consideration in their record of decision. They made this very clear.

Also as much as I detest politicians contacting them may have more value than anything else.
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Unread postby Brody » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:02 pm

True, but having a speaker representing a large group whom all agree on the same thing may work better if said person made that clear at the meeting that they were elected to speak on behave of the crowd of 100 people standing behind them.
Over being the 25 guys whom still give a shit but can't agree on anything. not that thats what happening at all, I more refering to the hardcore vs softcore trails that was going on at that meeting

IDK just a thought
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Unread postby Rick1975 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:16 pm

It would be nice to address a certified mail to the FS that paving this road to the Gap will guarantee more garbage, vandalism, and destruction.

This really is just stupid on their part.
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Unread postby peccary » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:04 pm

Brody wrote:True, but having a speaker representing a large group whom all agree on the same thing may work better if said person made that clear at the meeting that they were elected to speak on behave of the crowd of 100 people standing behind them.


Agree and it would not have to be one person, could be several. I think that would be a very good way to make the point to the bureaucratic chimps that there was consensus and determination from a large group.
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Unread postby DUMASS » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:55 pm

Image

Does anyone remember this guy reading a prepared statement from the CBD when the CBD was the Southwest Center for Biological Diversity, at the meeting at the resturaunt at Speedway and Wilmot in 1999, and walking out along with his supporters?

I can't remember the names of everyone present but there was an environmental liason from the Tucson Rough Riders.

Geoff and Leah, Jess Hamilton anyone here know these people, are you reading this now?

http://danielpatterson.net/ wrote:Daniel Patterson is the Southwest Director of Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, a national conservation service organization. He has also worked with the US Department of the Interior-Bureau of Land Management, ran his own consulting business, and directed the Center for Biological Diversity’s deserts program. Daniel is a graduate of Michigan State University’s College of Agriculture and Natural Resources.


He didn't have a suit and tie on having just returned from the Seattle WTO Protest.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f






We also have folks who work in these fields and have degrees in related fields. What are they currently doing to defend our rights? How are each of us working to defend our collective rights?

Do a quick google search for:
"All land use decisions are political decisions"

We all need to wake up before it's too late, we are beginning to feel what happened in Tellico last year.

In my "environazi" version of "The History of Tellico" the 4wheeling friends I have in Tennesee and North Carolina ARE the jews and gypsies.

The agencies, Forest Service, Game and Fish, BLM and The U S Department of the Interior, "Der Führer" played by Secretary Ken Salazar, are "the Nazis".

http://www.doi.gov/news/doinews/2010_01_28_news.cfm
Secretary Ken Salazar wrote:For the first time ever, the Department of the Interior is exploring our deserts and plains for their vast clean energy potential. As a Department which oversees 20 percent of the nation’s lands we have huge solar potential; the public lands in the deserts of the Southwest near the great cities of Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and Phoenix contain an estimated 2,300 gigawatts of energy.


http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/2 ... elease.cfm
The Solar Energy Study Areas, located in Nevada, Arizona, California, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah and outlined in maps to be published in the Federal Register Tuesday, encompass about 670,000 acres. Only lands with excellent solar resources, suitable slope, proximity to roads and transmission lines or designated corridors, and containing at least 2,000 acres of BLM-administered public lands were considered for solar energy study areas. Sensitive lands, wilderness and other high-conservation-value lands as well as lands with conflicting uses were excluded.


1. What is the first requirement?

2. Where do we find "slope"?

3. Do you think they want their equipment to be secure, as in "fenced" physically or virtually?

This is old news, we did nothing I am aware of to combat this plan or even to wonder "if" we would be affected. :oops:


If this seems "condecending", it is.....I am also "one of the chimps" who lacked the intelligence to see this coming before now. :oops:


Are we ready yet?

If not now, when?

THIS POST CONTAINS ZERO (0) DIRTY WORDS, what's your excuse for ignoring the information contained herein?
Last edited by DUMASS on Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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U.S. Supreme Court wrote:It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
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Unread postby DUMASS » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:36 pm

Image
Am I confused or does the red trail....er excuse me Forest Service ROAD (as in: must have license registration and driver's license NOT just an RV plate and a sticker), no longer connect to Oracle?


http://forum.ih8mud.com/az-copper-state ... ost5215023
Tools R Us wrote:I have heard several rumors related to this:

There are too many injury accidents happening, especially kids on quads/golf carts, so the trails need to be made safer. What happened to personal responsibility, educate yourself about the trail your going on and if it gets too rough turn around?

Emergency access is too expensive, so trails need to be maintained so that emergency vehicle access is easier. If trails are maintained to that level, traffic, speed will increase and accidents will increase, so wouldn't that be more expensive?

This one I heard in Crown King, but have heard again, so? Other than limited areas, (FJ, Table Mesa, Rolls, etc) all routes that will remain open will be maintained to a standard to allow for stock SUV travel.

My observation is the talk from the agencies doesn't match their actions:

They complain about too many users in the back country, but improve the roads. My guess is, doing that will increase travel?

They complain about the cost of emergencies. Increasing the number of travelers and speed isn't going to increase accidents/costs?

They complain about dust produced. A challenging trail is run at slow speed, under the significant dust producing speed. Grade them smooth and I'm running 30-40mph, enjoy the dust.:mad: What is next, speed cameras, tickets on the trail?

They complain about erosion caused by wheelers. How many years would it take for wheeler traffic to cause the same amount of erosion as one pass by the dozer blade? It fractures tons of rock, causing silt run off into washes, lakes, etc.

They complain that they don't have the budget to maintain trails. Obviously untrue, evidence shows they are running dozers. In my observation trails that have been bladed, washout quicker, have to be "improved" more often, so would be more expensive?

They complain about new trails being cut, off trail activity, etc. In my observation this is mainly caused by less experienced users. So by improving the trail, your inviting more less experienced users and once they get there, find few/no obstacles so create them.

They complain about trash. In my observation the same as above, mainly caused by less experienced users.

They complain that they don't have the budget for trail head signs. I call BS, it would be much less expensive to put/maintain signs than run dozers and remove wrecks/injured bodies. Having "gate keeper" type obstacles, representative of what to expect on the trail would go a long way to eliminating some of the problem. Instead they grade the entrance, so the trail looks easy, only to find out further down the trail that there are difficult obstacles, then bypasses get cut, stacking, etc.

My feeling is they are intentionally setting up a self fulfilling scenario, where they can say, "look we tried, but everything is getting worse, so we need to close everything".:mad::o

Bottom line, if there are trials that you want to see, get out and run them NOW. My guess is, they will soon be unavailable or greatly changed.:o:mad::frown:





http://asa4wdc.org/
http://asa4wdc.org/content/wheeldust/current.pdf
ASA4WDC QUARTERLY NEWSLETTER - WINTER EDITION 2009
The OHV sticker law is now being enforced. All are encouraged to get the RV plate first and then apply for the sticker to
avoid having to pay full price for vehicle license. Informational brochures were handed out to the delegates.
Legislative Advocate—Becky Antle. Report on Motorized Recreational Trails program grant works and results meeting.
This is an Arizona State Parks grant.
Desert Wells will receive access and signage, rehab and facility repair and have their trails inventoried.
Bill Gibson, BLM provided Tread Lightly material and training. Check Arizona State Parks website for more information.
Maps are available from BLM.
The grant provided money for the staging area at the Boulders, a world class facility with access guides, signage and restrooms.
The grant also provided money for repairs and new hot tubs and campsites at the Hot Well Dunes recreation area.
Scoping notice: Stimulus money received is going into the decommissioning of roads in the Nogales ranger district and
conservation.

Website—Becky Antle. On-line rosters need to be updated. Becky has added additional information to our website and set
up a line item for people to post their ads and pay on-line.
REGIONAL DIRECTORS’ REPORTS
Region 1—Sandee McCullen. Sandee has been talking with some new clubs that wish to join.
Region II—Steve Woods. Steve has been in contact with the Havasu Club. They are still on the fence.
Region III—Open.
Region IV—Rheal Tetreault. Attended the Coronado Forest Service planning meeting. The travel management plan is
almost complete. They want to bypass part of the Charouleau Gap trail but the attendees convinced them not to
.

OLD BUSINESS
AZOHVC Update—Jack Hickman. The 1.5 million dollar grant in partnership with the BLM is complete and is awaiting
signatures.
The AZOHVC did a dust treatment at the Boulders.
The AZOHVC is working with the town of Buckeye to establish a new OHV park with a gun range by Buckeye Hills.
Jeff Gursh has been attending the forest service travel planning meetings since we lost our consultant /lobbyist Nick Simonetta.
He will finish the projects that are already started.
The AZOHVC has made more inroads into getting Telegraph Trail reopened. The trails need repair.
Check the AZOHVC website at AZOHVC.com for weekly updates.
http://azohvc.com/



And hey, for those that missed it Dirtyboots' (Seth) ARB in his jeep is broke so get over to the tech section quick.......his badge and dog will still be wheeling the Gap and will continue to be unconcerned about roadblocks, operated by his co-workers on Reddington Rd. and coming to a location near you SOON, as I too would be were I employed by one of the agencies receiving stimulus funds to rid the earth of offroaders without badges. To protect our trails from being closed due to a few irresponsible people. :roll:

Maybe if I was being paid to support roadblocks and trail closures I too would support them? :naughty:

Seth, could you please share the skinny with your friends here, if you don't mind? What do your co-workers at the Forest Service plan to do? You work the Nogales District still, don't you? If you really are a fellow 4wheeler 1st and employed by the FS 2nd, we need your help now more than ever.

I desperately want to be wrong about this. Vegas would not offer very good odds on that.
PVT Martin Treptow wrote:America must win this war. Therefore, I will work, I will save, I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the issue of the whole struggle depended on me alone.


U.S. Supreme Court wrote:It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
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Unread postby Jess » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:03 pm

DUMASS wrote:
And hey, for those that missed it Dirtyboots' (Seth) ARB in his jeep is broke so get over to the tech section quick.......his badge and dog will still be wheeling the Gap and will continue to be unconcerned about roadblocks, operated by his co-workers on Reddington Rd. and coming to a location near you SOON, as I too would be were I employed by one of the agencies receiving stimulus funds to rid the earth of offroaders without badges. To protect our trails from being closed due to a few irresponsible people. :roll:

Maybe if I was being paid to support roadblocks and trail closures I too would support them? :naughty:

Seth, could you please share the skinny with your friends here, if you don't mind? What do your co-workers at the Forest Service plan to do? You work the Nogales District still, don't you? If you really are a fellow 4wheeler 1st and employed by the FS 2nd, we need your help now more than ever.

I desperately want to be wrong about this. Vegas would not offer very good odds on that.


At least it's not some green party lib from Booger County this time, but...

You're doing it again.

"...Confrontational communication involves a wide range of common words and phrases that include language that implies the speaker is "better than, language that demeans, or expresses lack of interest, ways of offering unwelcome and unsolicited advice, unrealistic reassurances, etc..."

"edited by moderator"

They don't forward this argument or anyone's belief in a "concerted" effort to improve trail policy. It pretty much just closes any door that might have been open with an iron clad argument that the policy of this group is modeled after the stupid shit you put here.

Could you explain or justify it in a debate?

Do you really think your adversary wouldn't capitalize on it if it were found? Or ANY of us for that matter if we challenged a public policy mentioned on this webpage?

congrats! :thumb:

PS- What the f#ck is your prob w/ dirtyboots? So he's a FS guy. Not all of us can get a job like you have..... selling rubber dicks. :flipoff:
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Unread postby hellraizer » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:20 am

Anyone remember what Three Feathers used to look like before they bladed Chivo? I am afraid we are looking at the same potential for destruction if anyone with a stock 4x4 can get back there.

At least it looks like they don't plan on going all the way through.
%@#$!!!!!!
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Unread postby scramblerX » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:17 am

Isn't the state broke? How is this being paid for? Might this be "job creation" with stimulus funds?
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Unread postby DUMASS » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:37 pm

scramblerX wrote:Isn't the state broke? How is this being paid for? Might this be "job creation" with stimulus funds?


You got it!

Would you like some links? The CuPIDO project with all the temporary weather stations was for a cloud study aimed at guess what.....

You could spend months just trying to follow the money on that one. You guys probably know that the county wanted Tumamoc Hill.
http://www.pima.gov/Administration/Tumamoc/Tumamoc.html

So in brief, Grijalva again, our leaders decided to buy while it was cheap spending what money they had and we here in the city get the cleanup cost so they can complete the transaction. Much like we bought the cleanup of ASARCO's Ray mine. You know, where they gave them the new desert to destroy while throwing us out of there too.

Incidentally, today's paper printed an article on how the Bighorn Sheep are gone from the Santa Catalinas (gee I wonder why?) but they'll leave the signs up in case they want to re-introduce them......and the Bighorn Sheep re-introduction area across from the old Ray mine is where the new mine is going. Does that mean they plan to move those sheep back to the Catalinas after they declare it "wilderness"??????? Doesn't "roadless" come before "wilderness"? I guess they need to close the Forest Service "roads" (and we called them trails) :wtf:

When all the hoopla was going on someone discovered that BLM etc have violated their own permit process regarding THEIR impact studies, sort of like their oversight in getting a permit to kill Jaguars, but hey....we're the criminals right...we need to be shown how to abide by their program rules (that they don't even understand apparently) or they will unfortunately have to close the area.

When do you suppose we'll get around to making them reevaluate our studies? Oh ya, we don't have any money. And we lost our lobbyist. :roll:

We here in Tucson should be leading the crowd to get rid of Grijalva and all his land grabs. This one guy is in the lead for worst LSOS in congress. Remember H.R. 1925, “America’s Red Rock Wilderness Act.”?


BOHICA

http://www.sharetrails.org/alerts/?alert=1107
URGENT NATIONWIDE ACTION ALERT - January 26th, 2010

Arizona Congressman Circulating Sign-On Letter to Expand the USFS Unlawful "de-facto Wilderness" Policy

IMMEDIATE ACTION NECESSARY

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscriber,

Congressman Grijalva (D - AZ), Chairman of the House Natural Resources Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands, is generating increased Congressional attention to a controversial management plan currently being implemented in Region 1 of the U.S. Forest Service (Region 1 = Montana and N. Idaho).

Recreationists across Montana have been fighting an attempt by Region 1 to manage all Recommended Wilderness Areas (RWAs) as de-facto Wilderness areas, banning motorized recreation and mountain bike use.

Only Congress can designate Wilderness. This is logical because Wilderness is the most restrictive land management designation on the planet. It is not wise, nor legal, for any federal land management agency to establish de-facto Wilderness areas.

Chairman Grijalva has written a letter in support of the Region 1 RWA policy and he is urging the Forest Service to expand it to all National Forests, nationwide. Grijalva is also circulating a "Dear Colleague" letter among members of the House of Representatives for support.

BRC had warned our members to expect a push for the Region 1 policy to go nationwide, so Grijalva's letter is not unexpected. What is unexpected, however, is that the International Mountain Bike Association (IMBA) is asking their members to contact their Congressman in support of Grijalva's request. I can not explain IMBA's actions here, but I can say that IMBA's backing places this issue in the "TOP PRIORITY" category.

If legislators get the idea that the Grijalvia's letter is good for recreation, that could be just what the FS needs to grease the skids on this lousy policy. If the policy goes nationwide it will give a devastating blow to single track motorcycle trails, mountain bike trails and snowmobile areas across the west.

We need you to contact your Congress Critter IMMEDIATELY and make certain they DO NOT sign on to Grijalva's letter.

We've prepared one of our famous 3-step action items below. As always, we've tried to make it easy as possible to minimize time away from work and family.

Please forward to friends, family and riding buddies.
Brian Hawthorne
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 ext 102

URGENT ACTION ALERT:

TELL YOUR CONGRESSMAN NO! ON GRIJALVA LETTER TO USFS

THREE STEP ACTION ITEM:

1) Click HERE and enter your zip code to find the phone number for your Representative. Then use the talking points below in your call. Be brief and be polite, but make it clear: NO on Grijalva's Dear College letter.

2) If you live in a state with a member of the House Natural Resources Committee, your call is particularly important. Key states include: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Guam, Hawaii, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virgin Islands, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

3) Ask your friends and family to sign up for BRC's Action Alerts. BRC will keep an eye on this issue and we'll let you know if YOUR Congress Critter signed on to the letter.

Talking Points to Use In Your Calls and Letters

Congressman Raul Grijalva, Chairman of the House Natural Resources Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands, is circulating a "Dear Colleague" letter regarding the management of U.S. Forest Service (USFS) lands that have been recommended by the agency for Wilderness designation. Please DO NOT sign Representative Grijalva's letter.

These lands are commonly known as Recommended Wilderness Areas or "RWAs." The letter expresses a concern about the agency's continued authorization of activities in RWAs that are disallowed in Wilderness areas, including the use of motorized vehicles. It supports managing RWAs as if Congress had actually designated them as Wilderness.

Only Congress can designate Wilderness. This is logical because Wilderness is the most restrictive land management designation on the planet. It is not wise, nor legal, for any federal land management agency to establish de-facto Wilderness areas.

The policy suggested by Representative Grijalva creates a situation where currently authorized mountain bike and motorized recreation does not preclude lands becoming RWA's - but then mandates those uses be all but eliminated. If the existing uses do not stop the lands from being recommended as Wilderness, then why should those activities not be allowed to continue until Congress acts?

More importantly, the RWA policy precludes collaborative solutions such as those reached in recent land use legislation. This policy presupposes the agency's desires on what is properly between Congress and the American people. By doing so, it eliminates the opportunity for mountain bike and motorized users to reach acceptable compromise with Wilderness advocates, State and local governments, and other stakeholders.

Please DO NOT sign Representative Grijalva's letter.




We have the power to end this guy's career, one vote ended the masterplan in Congress. We need to vote our enemies out of Congress and make the new ones understand that their jobs depend on representing all of their constituents.

VOTE
PVT Martin Treptow wrote:America must win this war. Therefore, I will work, I will save, I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the issue of the whole struggle depended on me alone.


U.S. Supreme Court wrote:It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
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Unread postby DUMASS » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:39 pm

hellraizer wrote:At least it looks like they don't plan on going all the way through.


JUST LIKE THEY DIDN'T GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH ITALIAN TRAP, THEY PUT UP A GATE AND LOCKED IT :mad2:
PVT Martin Treptow wrote:America must win this war. Therefore, I will work, I will save, I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the issue of the whole struggle depended on me alone.


U.S. Supreme Court wrote:It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
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Unread postby DUMASS » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:19 pm

Our current administration has a playbook and they are steamrollering right over our dazed and confused fellow wheelers as they identify which strategies work best to exploit our indifference. :mad:

HR1925 was a big one, but no where near the end.

Here's an exerpt, my translation: "the end justifys the means".

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny ... etter.html
November 10, 2009

Honorable Ken Salazar, Secretary
Department of the Interior
1849 C Street, N.W.
Washington DC 20240

Dear Mr. Secretary:

------

As was made clear in this hearing, there are multiple paths to protecting these public lands, including more geographically focused alternatives. While we continue to support a statewide solution, we are also open to some of these different approaches. As we work in Congress on determining how to protect the wild public lands identified in H.R. 1925, we request that you utilize the considerable authorities granted to you under the Federal Land Policy and Management Act and other statutes to administratively protect the wilderness characteristics of the lands contained in the Red Rock legislation until Congress acts to protect them statutorily.

-----
Sincerely, Maurice Hinchey & his 88 House colleagues



I'm sure a stucco hell scab on the desert.....powered by clean solar energy...

(built by "for-profit" utilities, with public stimulus money, on public land now surrounded by "wilderness", guarded by armed troops to protect the corporate profit, like Chinese copper interests...but that's another story.)

...would look great on paper.....and if we could still get to the Gap.....would still look like a ...... stucco hell scab on the desert.




Have you asked yourself why we needed the mine's water rights and a new Pinal County landfill on Cottonwood Canyon Rd.?
PVT Martin Treptow wrote:America must win this war. Therefore, I will work, I will save, I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the issue of the whole struggle depended on me alone.


U.S. Supreme Court wrote:It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
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Unread postby jonny blaze » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:22 pm

Has anyone tried contacting any members of the Tucson rough riders? I tried but the link to e-mail didnt work and there is a trojan virus with it too. It is there adopted trail and you would think someone over there knows or can enlighten us to wtf is going on. I know us finding out the reason changes nothing but it can at least get the topic off why, and more to what now. :wtf:
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Unread postby archangel » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:59 am

The rough riders are aware of the situation. I've spoken with Jeremy @ Trail Boss, who is part of the Rough Riders. I'm getting more information here shortly.
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Unread postby DUMASS » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:52 pm

Here's the contact info, spoke with Becky before/after the last Florence meeting at G&F. IIRC she was at the 1999 meeting I was referring to in the post with the pic of Daniel Patterson, formerly of the SCDB.

The minutes I posted (pg 3, Winter 2009 issue of The Wheel Dust, http://asa4wdc.org/content/wheeldust/current.pdf) indicated that Rheal Tetreault:

dumass wrote:Region IV—Rheal Tetreault. Attended the Coronado Forest Service planning meeting. The travel management plan is
almost complete. They want to bypass part of the Charouleau Gap trail but the attendees convinced them not to.



ASA4WDC - Contact info:
President & Legislative Advocate
Rebecca Antle—520-682-0273
4critter@comcast.net

Region IV
Rheal Tetreault—520-682-0273
Email: 4critter@comcast.net

Pretty sure this is virus free.

Doesn't seem like dirtyboots/Seth wants to share the info from the Forest Service.......unsurprisingly the support for the draconian policies being shoved into reality (or some other orifice) seems to be coming from those in the employ, or seeking employment, of said government agencies.

The last time I checked this was still the United States of America not the U.S.S.R., these agencies exist to serve and protect US, NOT the agenda of the United Nations, W.T.O. or Interpol. :mad:
PVT Martin Treptow wrote:America must win this war. Therefore, I will work, I will save, I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the issue of the whole struggle depended on me alone.


U.S. Supreme Court wrote:It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
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Unread postby DUMASS » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:47 pm

I just got off the phone with Janine Derby, Coronado National Forest
Supervisor's Office, Forest Supervisor. ( yes, at 6:30 she returned my call)

According to Janine Derby, 388-8306, USFS drove the trail with the Tucson Rough Riders a couple months ago. They are in compliance with NEPA and do not wish to provide documentation without a FOIA.


It would be helpful if someone nearer to the Gap and more of a morning person than I could go up and film the work while it is being performed. This really should be being done on a daily basis.

In Tellico the remediation efforts are in violation of NEPA.

I would not be uncomfortable in asserting my belief that it is unlikely that the work taking place here is in fact compliant with all aspects of their authority.

She indicated that they were receiving many calls from "those not affilliated with the club" and that they would have a public information response tomorrow.

Feel free to call Dustin, a very nice part time student and worker answering phones for their office, 388-8300. He should have knowledge of this in the morning.

When inquiring refer to, "Charouleau Gap 4X4 Road #736".

Image

I guess we're also waiting for a response from the TRR and ASA4WDC?
PVT Martin Treptow wrote:America must win this war. Therefore, I will work, I will save, I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the issue of the whole struggle depended on me alone.


U.S. Supreme Court wrote:It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442
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